does a dictator care what "the people" think. NOT!
So maybe it's Trump's time to go as well if we read the stats correctly.
Maybe he'll have a heart attack when he's dragged out of the white house kicking, screaming, and ranting. One can only dream. I have a dream as MILK would say . my dream:
Trump's no dictator. He only plays one in some people's imaginations. He's authoritarian, of course, because he was a corporate CEO! They all are.
Trump's a buffoon, a narcissist, an American man who just can't keep an American wife, a snake-oil salesman, and a guy who really gets off on closing deals.
Yet he has done far less damage to things like free speech than have his opponents, much less used the power of the Federal Government to persecute them, and some of them very much deserve to be prosecuted over SOMETHING.
Trump's one oligarch with some power, surrounded by bigger and wealthier oligarchs who will try to manipulate him. That's a different thing from a dictator. Not necessarily better, just different.
My biggest issue with Trump, Ohio, is that he pays his debts if he perceives that those he owes are his 'betters' (narcissism is fueled by profound insecurity.) So, for example, he gave the right-wing dominionists their repeal of Roe (I doubt he has anything personally against abortion.) He gave them, too, their Heritage Foundation court picks. Then, with Israel, he moved the embassy, gave Adelson the 'medal of freedom,' and has given Musk the keys to the kingdom - even tolerating the troll's outright disrespect.
Now, will being deeply unpopular with both sides of the majority be enough for him to throw his donors under the bus? It's hard to say.
I don’t doubt anything you say here. My one question is; why do you think public opinion in the US will have any influence on events??
Trump and his vandals don’t seek to court opinion, but to dictate it, and will gleefully characterise all dissent as FakeNooz/ShitLib conspiracy, firing anyone who gets in their way.
Good questions, and the only irrefutable answer that I have is that boycotts work. When enough people start hurting enough corporate bottom lines over this issue, they'll sell Israel down the river in a heartbeat, just like they did South Africa.
There are refutable answers, such as oligarchs worried about popular anger being turned on THEM if they don't change course, whether that be by boycotts or a plague of Luigi Mangiones.
Popular opinion is often, and IS this time, reflected in the opinions of our rank-and-file military. Add that to the Pentagon not wanting anything at all to do with Trump's scheme, and he risks potential mutiny, maybe even a coup, if he goes forward.
I don't think either Trump or Vance would risk that; it's just not in their characters. They'll continue to keep the flow of grift to Israel open for at least another year, I think, but after that? I am not so sure.
They have an America First problem, you see. If they keep putting Israel first, they'll be in political trouble.
The boycott part of your argument isn’t landing with me. Israel has always been subject to boycott and has never flinched, and the success of the apartheid boycott hasn’t made much difference to the material realities faced by the black majority. That limited success was the result of a thirty+ year campaign. I think you’ll agree Gaza can’t wait for US consumers to figure out how to hurt corporate profits without inconveniencing themselves.
The last part, though, is more intriguing. I’m not sure the position of the US infantryman will matter. Does Trump even want any old common-or-garden squaddies tramping around his pristine riviera? Surely he’d hire the best the market has to offer?
Putin is only still in power because he understands (unlike Assad, Hussein, Mussolini, et al) that the daily survival of the autocrat is at the sufferance of the infantry. He sends foreign conscripts, convicts and mercenaries to do the dirty brute work of imperialism, and it has kept him safe so far. I think Trump and his competing successors are more than willing to learn the same lesson with regard to Palestine and the wider region.
This boycott is different. The Belgian Parliament voted to cut off trade with Israel, to name just one example we don't hear much about. The Israeli economy is in free fall, and the best Israeli minds are emigrating. No, this one will eventually work.
Meanwhile, a lot more women and children are still going to die and I don't see any way that will be avoided.
As for troops, I agree with you that Trump won't send American troops. He'll try to sucker somebody else into doing it. Lol, who would want THAT job?
Professor Muhammad Morandi (Iranian Prof of English lit) appears on numerous youtube podcasts explaining what is going on vis a vis from the West Asia perspective....A point he makes over and over again are that Israel/US are their own worst enemies and what has been going on is total global PR disaster on multiple levels for both countries and especially with their relationships with the global south....part of this PR disaster may be attributed to social media but the dynamic has changed dramatically even from Trump's 2016 term. But equally important, he argues that the rest of the world (Europe, US) is only seeing what the Arab,Persian/global south world has been seeing for decades.
The political actions aside, what this COULD mean is that it gives 'we the people' some momentum !!! and, taken at the flood, could be the impetus to change the whole sorry structure of government to some thing that works for them.
Israel has a lot of intelligent and industrious people. As it is increasing seen as a pariah nation all around the world, how many of those people will want to remain there? When the US public finally gets fed up with being governed by an AIPAC-owned Congress supported by an equally corrupt main stream media, will the unconditional financial support of the genocidal Israeli regime continue undisturbed? The futures of the US and of Israel are very much dependent on the answers.
Many of those "intelligent and industrious people" have already left Israel, and more are leaving, so I think time is already in the process of answering that question.
The answer to the second question is an unequivocal NO. Eventually even most of the oligarchy will see Israel has reached the point of diminishing returns and cut bait.
Kind of like what they're doing with Ukraine right now.
Yes, I've gotta second that last line - "the futures (or lack thereof, am I right?) of the US and of Israel are very (very, very 😁) much dependent on the answers. (And, I would add actions relevant to those answers because the time for empty talk was yesterday.)
Trump likely will NOT run for another four years. But Vance and quite a few other people do want to run for the POTUS job in 2028. Therefore, even if Trump has a fixed bias on this matter, other people will want to grasp the thinking of the people right now. They will forget only AFTER they are elected.
The President's Gaza comment succeeded - wildly succeeded - at getting certain groups of people worked up. However I encourage you to consider a different take on his strategy:
You are missing a key point. Israel didn't want their help. Israel might have asked for their money to help solve the problem. However since Israel was monetarily supporting Hamas in order to make the Palestinians seem like extremists in order to take their land they were going to let Egypt or Jordan actually help them. Trumps willingness to make a deal might be why the arabs states are putting forth their plan now. Trump might even go for it. Doesn't seem like 4D deal making to me though.
I haven't seen any new Arab plan. If it's an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, with either East Jerusalem as its capital or Jerusalem as a free city, then it hasn't changed since 1967.
My take away from the article Gracuss linked was that Trump has gotten the Arabs states to offer to pay for Gaza construction and take over oversite. The the governance and money was never (is still not) the issue.
OK, now I see the Egyptians have come up with something. Exactly what, I'm not sure yet, but it looks like the Saudis and Jordanians are already on board with it.
They're talking about putting some non-Hamas Palestinians in theoretical charge of Gaza. At best, it's a temporary measure that might help some Gazans in the near future, but this mess won't be resolved until Zionism's as powerless as Nazism.
OK, I read it. I completely disagree with that take. I don't see Jordan, Egypt, or any other Arab country taking in a couple million Palestinians. No way, no how, and no, they are NOT considering it.
Jordan's king came out to tell Trump, nicely no doubt, that he'd rather go to war with Israel and lose than to do that. I think that post is full of some very wishful thinking.
Hahaha! Really? Sorry I shouldn't laugh but Jordan actually said -we'll take 2200 children that need hospital care, if you send any more Palestinians across the Jordanian border, we Declare War On Israel, and this was reaffirmed immediately after King Abdulah left the white house last week. Sisi's envoy flight turned around en route, cancelled the meeting. Mohammad bin Salman said two state solution, Yemen is United against Israel, AnserAllah is poised to strike should hostilities aka 'the genocide' resume. UAE and Bahraini PEOPLE are disgusted with Israel. Turkey is eying Israels move up from the Golani heights into southern syria and is probably planning the possibility of direct confrontation with them there. Egypt just purchased 24 Chinese J10 fighters with some serious long range strike capability that the US would never sell them, because of Israel. I would seriously give the state of Israel until late 2026 to exist - period.
But I only have a high school education, so what do I know?
2026? I'm not that optimistic, but if I'm going to say that I should give a date myself, shouldn't I? I'll say by 2036, which at least gives me a good chance of living to see it.
Don't fret about "only" a HS education. I "only" have a BA, but if I had gotten an MA, or worse, a Piled Higher and Deeper, I'd probably be an establishment shill. Usually, if one refuses to think like the establishment, one does not get those advanced degrees.
What's up with that? Most of my 'educated associates' support(ed) Israel, most of my blue collar variety do not in the least. What are they putting in the water on University campuses?
Data for Progress is associated with the Democratic Party, therefore it cannot possibly be Left Wing because Democrats aren't. Regardless, their polling's usually OK on general subjects like this. If they tilted it, they tilted it in favor of Israel, not the other way around.
I suspect that the entire point of the "US will take control of Gaza" plan was to make the finishing of the genocide more plausibly deniable so MSM and governments could continue to ignore it.
However, Israel always was planning to do it all themselves. Maybe with large checks to US construction companies depending on where the grift was supposed to flow?
Trump just can't not say the quiet part out loud and the entire middle east obviously saw this coming. Their lack of control of the US media environment is what is really biting them in the arse.
Great analysis that was never more well deserved.....U of Md School of Government completely cured me of doing statistical/numerical analysis, especially with regard to reading poll numbers - so nice to see such an example of the way it should be done and what I should have learned. I still think/worry that Trump is rocking too many boats - though I do agree with attempts to end the Ukraine conflict and improve relations with Russia; likewise ending AID......But at the end of the day there are too many vested interests (i.e., the Clinton Foundation) that, I believe, will not go w/o a fight....tbc
The American public was even more strongly opposed to both world wars. Hopefully this time, people will see through the manipulation. I am impressed with the numbers; there might just be hope after all. Being an ally of Israel has brought the US nothing but misery.
Fingers crossed this poll amounts to a complete shut down of the funding/arming of Israel and genocide, but this is the US. The 2014 Princeton Study says that 0% of what the public wants is enacted by our elected officials.
I dunno. I’m so weary of reading about or listening to people say that Israel just isn’t going to make it; can’t make it; the numbers don’t lie! They have a lot of powerful friends. That said: I hope I live to see the place burned to the ground.
Good point, but money doesn't stop bullets. I agree with your underlying thought, but, the world has changed. Governments may vocally voice support for Israel, but the citizens of the world hate them with a passion. Israels long history of lies and actions at the cost of anyone but Zionists forces the citizenry of the world to respond with disdain, malfeasance, and even hatred. Humans are just wired to hate people that kill children. Right?
You could have fooled me! I mean, I hope so, I really do, but the critical level of outrage hasn’t been met it seems. Why are people such goddamn pussies and so timid about everything? Where is their spirit? Their sense of right and wrong? What happened to us?
From its website. Someone might want to check its polling methodology here. In the popularity race between Israel and the Gazans (post Palestinians), the Gazans will lose. This week’s grotesque depravity involving the murdered in captivity Bibas children may have sealed Gaza’s fate.
This is heartening, I would be very happy to hear no more talk of a two state solution.
In my opinion, the ONLY way forward is for the UN to rescind Israel's membership, define Palestine as the single state in that area of the middle east and pursue a ONE State solution with equal rights for every citizen. This would undo the great mistake the world made recognising Israel back in 1948. It should, also, designate, Zionists as belonging to a terror organisation and pursue a policy that require UN member countries to hold people accountable.
I would be over the moon if the American people start holding their politicians accountable as well,
does a dictator care what "the people" think. NOT!
So maybe it's Trump's time to go as well if we read the stats correctly.
Maybe he'll have a heart attack when he's dragged out of the white house kicking, screaming, and ranting. One can only dream. I have a dream as MILK would say . my dream:
People
Planet
Peace
Trump's no dictator. He only plays one in some people's imaginations. He's authoritarian, of course, because he was a corporate CEO! They all are.
Trump's a buffoon, a narcissist, an American man who just can't keep an American wife, a snake-oil salesman, and a guy who really gets off on closing deals.
Yet he has done far less damage to things like free speech than have his opponents, much less used the power of the Federal Government to persecute them, and some of them very much deserve to be prosecuted over SOMETHING.
Trump's one oligarch with some power, surrounded by bigger and wealthier oligarchs who will try to manipulate him. That's a different thing from a dictator. Not necessarily better, just different.
My biggest issue with Trump, Ohio, is that he pays his debts if he perceives that those he owes are his 'betters' (narcissism is fueled by profound insecurity.) So, for example, he gave the right-wing dominionists their repeal of Roe (I doubt he has anything personally against abortion.) He gave them, too, their Heritage Foundation court picks. Then, with Israel, he moved the embassy, gave Adelson the 'medal of freedom,' and has given Musk the keys to the kingdom - even tolerating the troll's outright disrespect.
Now, will being deeply unpopular with both sides of the majority be enough for him to throw his donors under the bus? It's hard to say.
I don’t doubt anything you say here. My one question is; why do you think public opinion in the US will have any influence on events??
Trump and his vandals don’t seek to court opinion, but to dictate it, and will gleefully characterise all dissent as FakeNooz/ShitLib conspiracy, firing anyone who gets in their way.
In short; who will stop him doing what he wants?
Good questions, and the only irrefutable answer that I have is that boycotts work. When enough people start hurting enough corporate bottom lines over this issue, they'll sell Israel down the river in a heartbeat, just like they did South Africa.
There are refutable answers, such as oligarchs worried about popular anger being turned on THEM if they don't change course, whether that be by boycotts or a plague of Luigi Mangiones.
Popular opinion is often, and IS this time, reflected in the opinions of our rank-and-file military. Add that to the Pentagon not wanting anything at all to do with Trump's scheme, and he risks potential mutiny, maybe even a coup, if he goes forward.
I don't think either Trump or Vance would risk that; it's just not in their characters. They'll continue to keep the flow of grift to Israel open for at least another year, I think, but after that? I am not so sure.
They have an America First problem, you see. If they keep putting Israel first, they'll be in political trouble.
The boycott part of your argument isn’t landing with me. Israel has always been subject to boycott and has never flinched, and the success of the apartheid boycott hasn’t made much difference to the material realities faced by the black majority. That limited success was the result of a thirty+ year campaign. I think you’ll agree Gaza can’t wait for US consumers to figure out how to hurt corporate profits without inconveniencing themselves.
The last part, though, is more intriguing. I’m not sure the position of the US infantryman will matter. Does Trump even want any old common-or-garden squaddies tramping around his pristine riviera? Surely he’d hire the best the market has to offer?
Putin is only still in power because he understands (unlike Assad, Hussein, Mussolini, et al) that the daily survival of the autocrat is at the sufferance of the infantry. He sends foreign conscripts, convicts and mercenaries to do the dirty brute work of imperialism, and it has kept him safe so far. I think Trump and his competing successors are more than willing to learn the same lesson with regard to Palestine and the wider region.
This boycott is different. The Belgian Parliament voted to cut off trade with Israel, to name just one example we don't hear much about. The Israeli economy is in free fall, and the best Israeli minds are emigrating. No, this one will eventually work.
Meanwhile, a lot more women and children are still going to die and I don't see any way that will be avoided.
As for troops, I agree with you that Trump won't send American troops. He'll try to sucker somebody else into doing it. Lol, who would want THAT job?
Professor Muhammad Morandi (Iranian Prof of English lit) appears on numerous youtube podcasts explaining what is going on vis a vis from the West Asia perspective....A point he makes over and over again are that Israel/US are their own worst enemies and what has been going on is total global PR disaster on multiple levels for both countries and especially with their relationships with the global south....part of this PR disaster may be attributed to social media but the dynamic has changed dramatically even from Trump's 2016 term. But equally important, he argues that the rest of the world (Europe, US) is only seeing what the Arab,Persian/global south world has been seeing for decades.
The political actions aside, what this COULD mean is that it gives 'we the people' some momentum !!! and, taken at the flood, could be the impetus to change the whole sorry structure of government to some thing that works for them.
Israel has a lot of intelligent and industrious people. As it is increasing seen as a pariah nation all around the world, how many of those people will want to remain there? When the US public finally gets fed up with being governed by an AIPAC-owned Congress supported by an equally corrupt main stream media, will the unconditional financial support of the genocidal Israeli regime continue undisturbed? The futures of the US and of Israel are very much dependent on the answers.
Many of those "intelligent and industrious people" have already left Israel, and more are leaving, so I think time is already in the process of answering that question.
The answer to the second question is an unequivocal NO. Eventually even most of the oligarchy will see Israel has reached the point of diminishing returns and cut bait.
Kind of like what they're doing with Ukraine right now.
Yes, I've gotta second that last line - "the futures (or lack thereof, am I right?) of the US and of Israel are very (very, very 😁) much dependent on the answers. (And, I would add actions relevant to those answers because the time for empty talk was yesterday.)
"Israel, your doom is coming, your days are numbered, and no god is coming to save you."
Let us hope. It can't come fast enough.
Hey Mark🖐🏼 Good week to you and yours friend, I couldn't agree more!
Same to you. Solidarity for peace and justice.
Trump likely will NOT run for another four years. But Vance and quite a few other people do want to run for the POTUS job in 2028. Therefore, even if Trump has a fixed bias on this matter, other people will want to grasp the thinking of the people right now. They will forget only AFTER they are elected.
Trump is term-limited. He CANT run again.
The President's Gaza comment succeeded - wildly succeeded - at getting certain groups of people worked up. However I encourage you to consider a different take on his strategy:
https://jdrucker.substack.com/p/president-trump-demonstrates-how
You are missing a key point. Israel didn't want their help. Israel might have asked for their money to help solve the problem. However since Israel was monetarily supporting Hamas in order to make the Palestinians seem like extremists in order to take their land they were going to let Egypt or Jordan actually help them. Trumps willingness to make a deal might be why the arabs states are putting forth their plan now. Trump might even go for it. Doesn't seem like 4D deal making to me though.
I haven't seen any new Arab plan. If it's an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, with either East Jerusalem as its capital or Jerusalem as a free city, then it hasn't changed since 1967.
My take away from the article Gracuss linked was that Trump has gotten the Arabs states to offer to pay for Gaza construction and take over oversite. The the governance and money was never (is still not) the issue.
OK, now I see the Egyptians have come up with something. Exactly what, I'm not sure yet, but it looks like the Saudis and Jordanians are already on board with it.
They're talking about putting some non-Hamas Palestinians in theoretical charge of Gaza. At best, it's a temporary measure that might help some Gazans in the near future, but this mess won't be resolved until Zionism's as powerless as Nazism.
OK, I read it. I completely disagree with that take. I don't see Jordan, Egypt, or any other Arab country taking in a couple million Palestinians. No way, no how, and no, they are NOT considering it.
Jordan's king came out to tell Trump, nicely no doubt, that he'd rather go to war with Israel and lose than to do that. I think that post is full of some very wishful thinking.
Hahaha! Really? Sorry I shouldn't laugh but Jordan actually said -we'll take 2200 children that need hospital care, if you send any more Palestinians across the Jordanian border, we Declare War On Israel, and this was reaffirmed immediately after King Abdulah left the white house last week. Sisi's envoy flight turned around en route, cancelled the meeting. Mohammad bin Salman said two state solution, Yemen is United against Israel, AnserAllah is poised to strike should hostilities aka 'the genocide' resume. UAE and Bahraini PEOPLE are disgusted with Israel. Turkey is eying Israels move up from the Golani heights into southern syria and is probably planning the possibility of direct confrontation with them there. Egypt just purchased 24 Chinese J10 fighters with some serious long range strike capability that the US would never sell them, because of Israel. I would seriously give the state of Israel until late 2026 to exist - period.
But I only have a high school education, so what do I know?
Well, I like your analysis and your command of the facts. And I can live with that timeline - the end of 2026 sounds perfect to me!
2026? I'm not that optimistic, but if I'm going to say that I should give a date myself, shouldn't I? I'll say by 2036, which at least gives me a good chance of living to see it.
Don't fret about "only" a HS education. I "only" have a BA, but if I had gotten an MA, or worse, a Piled Higher and Deeper, I'd probably be an establishment shill. Usually, if one refuses to think like the establishment, one does not get those advanced degrees.
What's up with that? Most of my 'educated associates' support(ed) Israel, most of my blue collar variety do not in the least. What are they putting in the water on University campuses?
Joking? Not joking!
⚘Brilliant
Shit man! Even Wikipedia says the poll is from a Left Wing Think Tank! Are you the last Bluesky here!
Data for Progress is associated with the Democratic Party, therefore it cannot possibly be Left Wing because Democrats aren't. Regardless, their polling's usually OK on general subjects like this. If they tilted it, they tilted it in favor of Israel, not the other way around.
Agree
I suspect that the entire point of the "US will take control of Gaza" plan was to make the finishing of the genocide more plausibly deniable so MSM and governments could continue to ignore it.
However, Israel always was planning to do it all themselves. Maybe with large checks to US construction companies depending on where the grift was supposed to flow?
Trump just can't not say the quiet part out loud and the entire middle east obviously saw this coming. Their lack of control of the US media environment is what is really biting them in the arse.
Great analysis that was never more well deserved.....U of Md School of Government completely cured me of doing statistical/numerical analysis, especially with regard to reading poll numbers - so nice to see such an example of the way it should be done and what I should have learned. I still think/worry that Trump is rocking too many boats - though I do agree with attempts to end the Ukraine conflict and improve relations with Russia; likewise ending AID......But at the end of the day there are too many vested interests (i.e., the Clinton Foundation) that, I believe, will not go w/o a fight....tbc
The American public was even more strongly opposed to both world wars. Hopefully this time, people will see through the manipulation. I am impressed with the numbers; there might just be hope after all. Being an ally of Israel has brought the US nothing but misery.
Fingers crossed this poll amounts to a complete shut down of the funding/arming of Israel and genocide, but this is the US. The 2014 Princeton Study says that 0% of what the public wants is enacted by our elected officials.
I dunno. I’m so weary of reading about or listening to people say that Israel just isn’t going to make it; can’t make it; the numbers don’t lie! They have a lot of powerful friends. That said: I hope I live to see the place burned to the ground.
Good point, but money doesn't stop bullets. I agree with your underlying thought, but, the world has changed. Governments may vocally voice support for Israel, but the citizens of the world hate them with a passion. Israels long history of lies and actions at the cost of anyone but Zionists forces the citizenry of the world to respond with disdain, malfeasance, and even hatred. Humans are just wired to hate people that kill children. Right?
You could have fooled me! I mean, I hope so, I really do, but the critical level of outrage hasn’t been met it seems. Why are people such goddamn pussies and so timid about everything? Where is their spirit? Their sense of right and wrong? What happened to us?
Israel delenda est.
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Should this poll be trusted?
“Data for Progress is the think tank
for the future of progressivism.”
From its website. Someone might want to check its polling methodology here. In the popularity race between Israel and the Gazans (post Palestinians), the Gazans will lose. This week’s grotesque depravity involving the murdered in captivity Bibas children may have sealed Gaza’s fate.
It's a good question. On questions like these, I've found Data for Progress pretty good. If was an election race it would be a different matter.
This is heartening, I would be very happy to hear no more talk of a two state solution.
In my opinion, the ONLY way forward is for the UN to rescind Israel's membership, define Palestine as the single state in that area of the middle east and pursue a ONE State solution with equal rights for every citizen. This would undo the great mistake the world made recognising Israel back in 1948. It should, also, designate, Zionists as belonging to a terror organisation and pursue a policy that require UN member countries to hold people accountable.
I would be over the moon if the American people start holding their politicians accountable as well,
this is long overdue !!!